Hear, hear. 30-something, bachelor's degree and half a master's (that I dropped out of after realizing it wouldn't get me anywhere) and I currently work at a job that pays less than my lowest-paying job, 15 years ago. Too much competition for too few good opportunities, despite intelligence, a good resume, blah, blah.
My roommate who is 10 years younger than me just glumly told me the other day that she felt naive and cheated about what her college education would get her. I tried to reassure her that it was collective, not just her.
When times are tough, I like to remind myself of a few mistakes that I didn't make. Didn't spend thousands of dollars on a useless Masters degree. Sure, I'm self/under/un-employed with an undergraduate degree from a very respected university, but I bet I would feel worse with a graduate degree.
That story about the woman who sued her 2-year college because she didn't get a job after graduating was pretty funny. I sympathize in general, but her particulars don't make her the best test case. First of all, she's only been job-hunting for 3 months. Second, she has a 2.75 GPA and one of her complaints is that the school's career counselors spend all their energy on the grads with higher GPAs and that somehow that is unfair. I'm all for spreading the responsibility fairly, but one has to take SOME personal responsibility.
It is humbling to be among the first large group in quite a while to go downwards in economic status from our parents' generation. But it is less humbling that it's not just me.
I agree that the woman who sued her college is clearly not going anywhere, regardless of how much help she gets from career counseling, but--Monroe College charged her SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a two-year community college degree that left her just as illiterate as when they sucked her in to their scam. SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
So she's an idiot, but how many of us are similar idiots? We still fall back on the notion that Education Is Always Good, that it's the way to get ahead, that it's an investment in our futures. And institutions like Monroe College and SFAI and CIIS and thousands more are taking advantage of this deeply programmed notion to suck us dry and spit us out, contacting us only to ask for more money.
Oh, and Leisa, I can relate--my most recent job paid less than half of what I made 10 years ago. Then they fired me for being uppity.
Yes, $70 grand for an AA degree is outrageous. There ought to be a law against that. It's true that we all fall somewhere along the idiot scale and sometimes the only thing that makes me feel better is to notice the people farther over toward SUPER IDIOT. But of course they are the ones who are most in need of protection from the scam-artist diploma mills.
From a concerned 20-year-old...it's very baffling to try to decide on a course of action when everything seems to be deteriorating underfoot. Pressure from parents and/or well-established adults to complete the assumed trajectory of college-career can be very frustrating and daunting when they don't take into account the topsy-turvy job market or truly consider the benefits of plunging into debt before you've earned a penny. I'm in college now for my bachelor's degree, and I'm terrified. I wonder everyday if I'm doing the right thing by going to school-- and that just doesn't seem right to me. Indeed-- they are asking the wrong question. Why not ask why there are many bright, talented, hardworking young people out there that are corralled into a windowless room of debt and uncertainty, with no opportunities to put their talent to good use?
I am of the opinion, shared by William Irwin Thompson, that people should NOT go to college directly out of high school. Instead they should travel, learn a trade, volunteer, or work any crappy job they can get. When you've got some idea of who you are, what the world is like, and what you want out of life (or what you DON'T want--a large part of this is process of elimination), THEN you go to college, assuming you want to do something that requires a degree.
(You can get the content of a liberal arts degree by reading and studying languages. You can get the content of an art degree by going to museums and renting a studio. You can get the content of a computer science degree by messing with computers around the clock for a couple of years. You can get the content of a business degree by going to your local chamber of commerce, downloading some free info packets and starting a business yourself.)
(To be an engineer, a doctor or a lawyer pretty much requires college, however.)
People who do this are focused, motivated, and not likely to put up with any BS on the part of their educational institutions. You MUST be an informed consumer when picking a college. Talk with alumni, talk with professors, talk with people currently working in your field of study. Figure out if the ratio of debt to likely future salary is manageable.
Also, if you take on a high-debt degree such as law or medicine, be DAMN SURE you really want to be a doctor or a lawyer. By the time you get out of school, your debt load will be so high that you will basically be an indentured servant. I have a relative who is a doctor, and whose student loan debt dwarfs her mortgage. She CANNOT change her mind.
Whatever you do, DON'T go deeply into debt for an English degree, an anthropology degree, an art history degree, a history degree, a philosophy degree (unless you REALLY want to be a philosophy professor, and nothing else), a Women's Studies degree, a social work degree, a comparative religions degree...you get the picture? This stuff may be fascinating, but you can do all of it without paying anybody, and nobody is ever going to pay YOU for it.
I completely agree with PL. DIY is the way to go. I'm all for self-education and if you live anywhere near a college, there are always events you can go to as part of the community. And if you want more structure, now it's even easier to get the same syllabi, readings and lectures that the students in universities are learning. I was just reading about this new effort to put a lot of content online for free.
And if you want a discussion or critique group, put a notice on craigslist.
Of course an undergrad degree is like what a high school diploma used to be; you probably need one to get a job as a file clerk. But that MA is like extremely expensive toilet paper.
Darlings, where to start? Sometimes I feel as though I have lived a thousand lives in this one, dewy and unlined though my complexion may be. To Tell All may be to intimidate; thus I maintain, at most times, a discreet reserve. But here I share my musings, perhaps revealing the secret to my exquisite poise and charm.
8 comments:
Hear, hear. 30-something, bachelor's degree and half a master's (that I dropped out of after realizing it wouldn't get me anywhere) and I currently work at a job that pays less than my lowest-paying job, 15 years ago. Too much competition for too few good opportunities, despite intelligence, a good resume, blah, blah.
My roommate who is 10 years younger than me just glumly told me the other day that she felt naive and cheated about what her college education would get her. I tried to reassure her that it was collective, not just her.
When times are tough, I like to remind myself of a few mistakes that I didn't make. Didn't spend thousands of dollars on a useless Masters degree. Sure, I'm self/under/un-employed with an undergraduate degree from a very respected university, but I bet I would feel worse with a graduate degree.
That story about the woman who sued her 2-year college because she didn't get a job after graduating was pretty funny. I sympathize in general, but her particulars don't make her the best test case. First of all, she's only been job-hunting for 3 months. Second, she has a 2.75 GPA and one of her complaints is that the school's career counselors spend all their energy on the grads with higher GPAs and that somehow that is unfair. I'm all for spreading the responsibility fairly, but one has to take SOME personal responsibility.
It is humbling to be among the first large group in quite a while to go downwards in economic status from our parents' generation. But it is less humbling that it's not just me.
Oriane
I agree that the woman who sued her college is clearly not going anywhere, regardless of how much help she gets from career counseling, but--Monroe College charged her SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for a two-year community college degree that left her just as illiterate as when they sucked her in to their scam. SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
So she's an idiot, but how many of us are similar idiots? We still fall back on the notion that Education Is Always Good, that it's the way to get ahead, that it's an investment in our futures. And institutions like Monroe College and SFAI and CIIS and thousands more are taking advantage of this deeply programmed notion to suck us dry and spit us out, contacting us only to ask for more money.
Oh, and Leisa, I can relate--my most recent job paid less than half of what I made 10 years ago. Then they fired me for being uppity.
Yes, $70 grand for an AA degree is outrageous. There ought to be a law against that. It's true that we all fall somewhere along the idiot scale and sometimes the only thing that makes me feel better is to notice the people farther over toward SUPER IDIOT. But of course they are the ones who are most in need of protection from the scam-artist diploma mills.
Oriane
From a concerned 20-year-old...it's very baffling to try to decide on a course of action when everything seems to be deteriorating underfoot. Pressure from parents and/or well-established adults to complete the assumed trajectory of college-career can be very frustrating and daunting when they don't take into account the topsy-turvy job market or truly consider the benefits of plunging into debt before you've earned a penny. I'm in college now for my bachelor's degree, and I'm terrified. I wonder everyday if I'm doing the right thing by going to school-- and that just doesn't seem right to me. Indeed-- they are asking the wrong question. Why not ask why there are many bright, talented, hardworking young people out there that are corralled into a windowless room of debt and uncertainty, with no opportunities to put their talent to good use?
Cassie--I think your concern is exceedingly sane.
I am of the opinion, shared by William Irwin Thompson, that people should NOT go to college directly out of high school. Instead they should travel, learn a trade, volunteer, or work any crappy job they can get. When you've got some idea of who you are, what the world is like, and what you want out of life (or what you DON'T want--a large part of this is process of elimination), THEN you go to college, assuming you want to do something that requires a degree.
(You can get the content of a liberal arts degree by reading and studying languages. You can get the content of an art degree by going to museums and renting a studio. You can get the content of a computer science degree by messing with computers around the clock for a couple of years. You can get the content of a business degree by going to your local chamber of commerce, downloading some free info packets and starting a business yourself.)
(To be an engineer, a doctor or a lawyer pretty much requires college, however.)
People who do this are focused, motivated, and not likely to put up with any BS on the part of their educational institutions. You MUST be an informed consumer when picking a college. Talk with alumni, talk with professors, talk with people currently working in your field of study. Figure out if the ratio of debt to likely future salary is manageable.
Also, if you take on a high-debt degree such as law or medicine, be DAMN SURE you really want to be a doctor or a lawyer. By the time you get out of school, your debt load will be so high that you will basically be an indentured servant. I have a relative who is a doctor, and whose student loan debt dwarfs her mortgage. She CANNOT change her mind.
Whatever you do, DON'T go deeply into debt for an English degree, an anthropology degree, an art history degree, a history degree, a philosophy degree (unless you REALLY want to be a philosophy professor, and nothing else), a Women's Studies degree, a social work degree, a comparative religions degree...you get the picture? This stuff may be fascinating, but you can do all of it without paying anybody, and nobody is ever going to pay YOU for it.
I completely agree with PL. DIY is the way to go. I'm all for self-education and if you live anywhere near a college, there are always events you can go to as part of the community. And if you want more structure, now it's even easier to get the same syllabi, readings and lectures that the students in universities are learning. I was just reading about this new effort to put a lot of content online for free.
try: http://www.justiceharvard.org/
http://oyc.yale.edu/english
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/
http://live.cua.edu/
And if you want a discussion or critique group, put a notice on craigslist.
Of course an undergrad degree is like what a high school diploma used to be; you probably need one to get a job as a file clerk. But that MA is like extremely expensive toilet paper.
Oriane
Thank you very much for your response(s). I'm starting to rethink this whole college thing :)
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